Michael Chiklis and Sean Patrick Small delve into Red Auerbach and Larry Bird’s captivating tales in the highly anticipated Winning Time Season 2

Michael Chiklis: “Crush them. Put them in their loser place where they belong,” relegate them to what he believes they are, which is a flash in the pan. I think that in all seriousness, the respect that they ultimately have for each other is earned, because initially Red Auerbach being the East Coast dyed in the wool, blue collar ethic guy looked at this flashy, button down to the navel, “Hey there, hi there, ho there” guy from LA with contempt and just disdain and, you know, “You aren’t even a competitor.”

He dismissed him, and all of a sudden, “Hey, you win one? Well, now we’re just gonna have to…”and then, “Wait, hold on a second, they win two, this is real, and this is the stuff that legends are made up of.” I lived through it, I was there, I went to Boston University from 1981-85, I was living in Boston, and it was mental. It was so palpable, it was an incredible period, and it’s one of those things where we were all really fortunate to get to witness this thing. It was crazy, that’s much more of an answer to your question. [Laughs]

Sean Patrick Small: Yeah, this season definitely peels back the layers of who he is as a Celtic, and you kind of see how he grows to be where he is. That cold-hearted, cold-stare, trash talking dude. You see it from ’74 Indiana on, and it’s great, because I did a lot of research starting in 2014 when I was writing my own mini series about Bird from his high school year to the ’79 championship game. So, being able to actually play that timeframe now with him during the season, I was prepared for the moment I thought, and then I just went even deeper with it.

Sean Patrick Small: Yeah, losing his father really inspired him to become the player he was, because he felt almost like he letHis dad let him down. He was a huge fan of the Indiana Hoosiers, but when he came home and told his dad that he dropped out of college and wouldn’t be going back, it was a disappointment. There was always a nagging feeling in the back of his mind, and then the tragedy of his father’s suicide pushed him even further away from the game of basketball. But thanks to Bill Hodges, he found his way back into the competitive world of basketball.

He played AAU and found father figures along the way. Bill Hodges at Indiana State and eventually Red Auerbach with the Celtics became important mentors in his life. They shared the same competitive drive that Bird had, and Red, despite his public persona, had a deep empathy that Bird connected with. Red became a father figure for Bird during his time with the Celtics.

Michael Chiklis: It really speaks to the genius of this man, and also philosophically in dealing with players and their psychology. There’s no doubt that he had insight to who Larry was, and how to nurture him and nurture his talent. We were talking earlier about the fact that Bill Russell speaks about how he was brilliant in that he would see a talent in someone like Bill Russell and bring them in, and instead of trying to make Bill Russell something that he wasn’t as a player, and making them fit into a system, he adjusted The System to highlight the strengths of whoever it was, who came into his team.

He was all about making that team the best unit they could be with championship being the ultimate goal always, really, and I loved it. Now, we’re starting to get into those little nuances in character of these men, and who they were personally, privately behind the scenes. I love that scene Sean and I had, like you said, so transformative.

The first time I walked on set in the first season and saw Sean in costume, I just was like [gasps], because, like I said, I grew up, I was there. He’s got his three pointers down, and he’s got the same release. I was, like, freaking out. I really did, I was like, “Holy s–t, he’s got an all-star!”

Michael Chiklis: [Laughs] I did too, I’m like, “What?! Man, you did your research. You’ve been watching how he releases.” That, right there, you’ve done it.

Sean Patrick Small: Well, hands up to Idan Ravin, the basketball trainer, he really was all about creating the silhouette of Bird within me. So, being able to learn how to dribble, how to run like him, how to shoot like him.

Michael Chiklis: Sean, the first time I saw you was from behind shooting a three-pointer. I went, like, “What?!” Like, my head, my brain hurt, because that was 25-plus years of watching that.